Curse

brawnylad · Jan 03, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Andicus

Make IWAY no longer trigger off pets, lengthen the recharge on orders(will help with R/spike too), and IWAY is no longer a problem. Throw in an increased recharge on Sig of Weariness, E/Surge and Migrane, and do something(no idea what) with EoE and Dual Shot, and all the biggest problems at the moment are fixed.

wow... if Iway is such a problem ,you might as well quit because there are way to many counters for it.

=HT=E5Destroyer · Jan 03, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

MAKE ITR SO WE CAN CHARM THE RATS ALSO. MAKE them have skills like "sneakyrat" what it will do is the rat will steal a targeted enemies skill for 1 turn and he will use it on him. ie the rat uses your skill against you. and while we at it we can have "ratthief" this skill is like "sneakyrat" but the skill is for you to use

lol

Ellix Cantero · Jan 03, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by brawnylad

wow... if Iway is such a problem ,you might as well quit because there are way to many counters for it.

This is a pretty lame argument and I'm tired of seeing it. People saying this either play IWAY exclusively or aren't very experienced in tombs. Here's my argument:

I'm in a guild that has been in the top ten since the last ladder reset. I've won HoH with balanced builds and recently I've played a bit of IWAY with friends over the break and been to the HoH numerous times with them. IWAY isn't unbeatable but it's too easy for not so good players to beat very good players. It's broken. Period.

Match after match on the observer mode you can watch top 100 guilds losing in the tombs to IWAY groups, and not just the 'top tier (haha)' IWAY groups. I beat EaT, the #88 guild, earlier tonight in an IWAY group and have watched them lose every match they were in since to IWAY, even when they started trying specific anti-IWAY tactics.

Another thing . . . have you supporters of IWAY tried playing in a balanced group with people who play nothing but IWAY? It's horrendous, full of moaning (omg this build is terrible, not enough damage! Let's play IWAY after this!), sometimes will not make it past the ghosts even. IWAY is a direct cause of ADD in the Guild Wars population I'm afraid.

It doesn't need a huge nerf to be set right, just something to put it back in its place as 'just another build to try tonight'. Judging from the frog's recurring comments about IWAY, something is probably on the horizon whether you guys like it or not

IWAY, after all, is the wrong way.

PS - I'm on the verge of unveiling my uber anti-IWAY build! IWAY teams beware!

HawkofStorms · Jan 03, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit

See Poised, you wouldn't HAVE to work to unlock these characters. You can choose too, but your not forced too. It would just give players the opition of having something else todo once they've completed the game with character A, then they can play with new race character B and see how he works, if he has the same sidequests, etc.

The problem with City of Heros was those two CLASSES (not races, u actually had to unlock two classes by making a max lvl char which takes many months) were ridiculously unbalanced and overpowered. Imagine having to play through the PvE storyline of GW to unlock the ability to play as a monk...

antialias02 · Jan 03, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellix Cantero

It doesn't need a huge nerf to be set right, just something to put it back in its place as 'just another build to try tonight'. Judging from the frog's recurring comments about IWAY, something is probably on the horizon whether you guys like it or not

IWAY, after all, is the wrong way.

/signed.

Of course its supporters are going to claim - and loudly - that there are lots of ways to counter it. Because then, if enough people even so much as believe that's true, there's no way it'll get nerfed.

Still, I'm with the Frog on this one. I am definitely morally opposed to IWAY.

Neriandal Freit · Jan 03, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

The problem with City of Heros was those two CLASSES (not races, u actually had to unlock two classes by making a max lvl char which takes many months) were ridiculously unbalanced and overpowered. Imagine having to play through the PvE storyline of GW to unlock the ability to play as a monk...

Well, if your talking to me (rather then Poised) I will say that isn't what i'm personally talking about. What I'm saying is we, at the start of chapter 2, have to continue to play as a Human, with (Em/Wa/Mo/Me/Ne/Ra) classes we're allowed to have, be it Spellcaster or Cleric, whatever.

Upon completion of that, we then can work for the necessary items and such to earn the right to play as Dwarf or a Halfling (only saying this because of my images above.). Then, and only then, could we be opened to maybe one new class that is Dwarf-only or Halfling-only, and they still retaining some form of our classes as well (Taskmaster, Priest, etc.) just with different names. I see it was a six month worth of work to become a Dwarf of a Halfling. And, their "Speciaility" class would only be a mirror like image of say an King's Guard, who can only say use Hammers and has a -1 on Swordmanship or something you know?

Does that make sense? Make it detailed but sticking to the same five colors of paints you've had.

xBakox · Jan 03, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Well as I said, I really would like some other races. IMO they should have small differences in skill so it wouldnt be like playing the same thing over. So small such as moving 10% slower or +5% to attack dmg plus different armors.

I think its a very bad idea to make you earn them. First of all grind.Grind is not good. Second, I think races would draw a new sort of people to the game (whether good or bad). I would be upset to have such a cool game but not being able to actually play it until you unlock it.

Also if there are races, I do not think there should be many skills targeting "just dwarves" or +50 damage against humans as that would make the game horribly un balanced and too lucky/situational.

The Primeval King · Jan 03, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Hello Gaile!

I have a class ideas to add, and I don't really talk to you in-game so I thought I would post it here...

Summoner: Summons spirits that would be like the ranger spirits but instead of being stationary, they follow you. Also, there could be spirits that are like pets but stronger. The Summoner would also have melee skills, but they would not be as strong as strong.

Tell me what you think if you have any free time! : )

Transluecent51 · Jan 03, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Why should their be new races? Seriously, you people play GW because you dont like the WoW setup, Right? I mean look at all the games in which multi-racing screws things up and makes stuff hectic. If GW was based and started on a single human race it should stay like that.

Diversity is a good thing in GW but new races stretch that. Im sure more classes will piss people off enough but thats competition. Why not just start a pole of what players prefer to see in the next chapter like races or classes...skills or professions. Its the players game, let Anet know what the majority wants.

sun is in us · Jan 03, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

/signed.

Of course its supporters are going to claim - and loudly - that there are lots of ways to counter it. Because then, if enough people even so much as believe that's true, there's no way it'll get nerfed.

Still, I'm with the Frog on this one. I am definitely morally opposed to IWAY.

Hmmm....guess there is only one way to play this game correctly huh? Let's keep asking for nerfs so everyone plays it the same. Let's kill IWAY,....then it's back to 1,2,3 Spike.....oh need TS or Vent for that....so maybe we can make everyone require that on every match.....or and "balanced builds"...pretty much garbage without TS/Vent as well....but whatever the new FOTM......let's cry to nerf that until nothing is left except balanced builds...and then we will make a rule that the 8 players can never bring 8 of the same skills....and oh...echo is overpowered, it lets a team think of a build that basically stacks 16 skills.........etc. etc...Ad Naseum.

I see IWAY as minature golf as opposed to the PRO-Tour......it is a harmless way for people to learn the game...and if the PRO golfers can't be bothered to learn how to defeat the minature golf players then they should just give up golf entirely.

Your "Moral" way can be ascribed to any spike builds also.....lets dumb down the game so there are no variations at all.......the FOTM nerfers will freak out on every new FOTM so eventually we will all have 4pips of regen and 40 energy and all the same skills. Then you won't ever have to "bother" to counter any FOTM ever again.

I like GW's approach so far...they aren't scared of FOTM builds and they let the META-game play out.....IWAY just being one of them.....it will be sad if the Nerf-posse gets their way.

Oh well.......

PS. Let me put it another way (and this is still related to Gaile as originally she said the frog thought I Will Avenge You! was appropriate in regards to a pet death...and now it seems the frog is leaning the other way....

Well, by arguing to nerf IWAY you will actually Discourage Variety in the METAGAME.....two examples.....

First, let's say the Gods destroy IWAY......why would anyone ever bring Ward Against Melee on a skill bar again? I mean...so you have two Axe warriors running around...so many other counters that deal damage and blind and cripple....so why equip it.....ahh another slot to add a spike.....that Ward is now worthless.....so more homogenous skill sets.

Second example....I rarely play IWAY but I did over the holiday (for about an hour) as a holiday thing.....well since I am a fan of being diverse....I brought Shields Up on my W/R. I expected to be lambasted by the PUG (as PUGS will) for having it/using it. Well guess what? The first two groups we fought were Ranger Spike....the 2nd group was very coordinated....they set up a body block of rangers in strategic spots and proceeded to fire away.....I am totally convinced that my counter saved our bacon....and I did not hear a word of complaint after I mentioned that......But when I have played Ranger Spike with my Guild I have never lost to an IWAY team......

Now if you decide Ranger Spike is like IWAY and want it nerfed....then diversity gone again....I will never bring Shields Up.....can you see the point?

The "Nerf" for IWAY has already been thougthfully provided by the Devs.....its called anti-melee skill bars: Ward against Melee.....Shadow of Fear...blinds....other Necro Curses......take out the threat of IWAY (or whatever the next Melee FOTM that people want to nerf) and these skills can be thrown out of the game.....

IWAY can be rendered harmless......it is not a bad thing that people are forced to counter it....

Meneldil · Jan 03, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Why not just make the avatar race-changeable? As in only the image, like a boy/girl. As in all races are created equally, just look different?

-Elf
-Dwarf
-Half-ling
-etc.

antialias02 · Jan 03, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun is in us

Your "Moral" way can be ascribed to any spike builds also.....lets dumb down the game so there are no variations at all.......the FOTM nerfers will freak out on every new FOTM so eventually we will all have 4pips of regen and 40 energy and all the same skills. Then you won't ever have to "bother" to counter any FOTM ever again.

I like GW's approach so far...they aren't scared of FOTM builds and they let the META-game play out.....IWAY just being one of them.....it will be sad if the Nerf-posse gets their way.

The only problem is when "Flavor of the Month" builds become "Flavor of the Four and Five Month" builds, a la Spirit Spamming. I'm not saying that IWAY is the new Spirit Spam. I'm just saying that Guild Wars is supposed to be a game that is the ultimate in balance and IWAY is slightly less than balanced.

Manic Smile · Jan 04, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

The only problem is when "Flavor of the Month" builds become "Flavor of the Four and Five Month" builds, a la Spirit Spamming. I'm not saying that IWAY is the new Spirit Spam. I'm just saying that Guild Wars is supposed to be a game that is the ultimate in balance and IWAY is slightly less than balanced.

IWAY is not unbalanced and you've been moderate on it(this isn't really aimed at you)...just annoying...it's popular because it's easy and doesn't require the waste of time of trying to get a decent balanced build among the rank obsessed idiots in tombs. I love hearing the very people who caused the IWAY problem complain about it. IWAY is not undbeatable...it isn't even all that great...I played IWAY for a long while before getting bored with it. Stop whining because you lost to it and make a party build with it in mind...you WILL see one on your way to HoH...just got to hope whatever you have left over works against non IWAY. I wish people would just shut up about this...if it's so horribly unbalanced to go play with it.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jan 04, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

First off let me say that I loathe IWAY and I hate that so many teams are using it. It's old and uncreative. I wish people would come up with other builds....

.....BUT just because it's popular doesnt mean that it should be nerfed or that it's unbalanced. I'm even more annoyed by the calls of nerf than I am with IWAY. Just because YOU don't like it doesnt mean it should be messed with.

And stop saying that IWAY defenders like me are only defending it because we're running IWAY... Just the opposite. I think those that know better and have been consistantly beating IWAY are the ones who know that it's not unbalanced.

Sick of IWAY? We have no one to blame but ourselves...people in general are stupid and have no original thought and therefore there will always be a flavour of the month regardless of how much you hate it and nerf things. But let's not unnecessarily nerf things.

Neriandal Freit · Jan 04, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I just wish to say I rebuke what I've said about Races. Let's just stick to humans..

CKaz · Jan 04, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

All great ideas, and have them available POST SEAR as well.

Hells Vengeance · Jan 04, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

I think IWAY is fine. People just blame their losses on IWAY for reasons they don't know. If it doesn't take skill, how is it that rank 0 IWAY teams suck more than rank 3? or rank 3 suck more than rank 6? IWAY is a good build but is beatable in many ways if YOU have the skills.

CKaz · Jan 04, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

You have to give us at least 4 more slots. In fact I'd wish for one before the expansion at least or could you guys HURRY IT UP??

easy example -
3 characters for unlocks (all covered, yes it forced your choices, possible remakes)
1 for pvp (so you can make use of said unlocks/try all primaries there)

you get wife to join (more money for ANet - another $50!) -
goodbye PvP for my account (and point of unlocks!) so I can pre-sear/play with her through game
she gets interested enough to go another character - umm seeya in post sear...

Never had a game like this with so few character slot options
Add in expansion with 2 more character slots and more combinations...

It's such a big deal to me I won't even get to the lack of inventory space with all the gosh darn crafter items, collections, event items, and just trying to keep some ability to configure your primary/secondary skill line with equip.

judge1121 · Jan 04, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

With more races and more proffessions there should be more character slots.

i think advantages for a race should be done. something fun and/or something crucial. no matter if it is beneficial for pvp it should be so that tactics is the key to win.

Gli · Jan 04, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

The only thing I'd expect of new races is... new dances. Dwarven warriors doing the traditional cossack dance, elven mesmers doing bits out of swan lake, moonwalking charr necromancers... Oh yeah!